Kenny Williams: A Beane or a Krause? -- Part 2
I scrounged up most of the trades that the Sox have made during the Kenny Williams era, just to see whether they can afford us any insight into his more recent trades. I also went ahead, and grouped them into categories; feel free to tell me where you think I went wrong with the categories.
Heists
1/15/2003 Acquired pitcher Bartolo Colon and infielder Jorge Nunoz from Montreal in exchange for pitchers Rocky Biddle and Orlando Hernandez, outfielder Jeff Liefer and cash considerations
6/27/2004 Acquired RHP Freddy Garcia, C Ben Davis and cash considerations from Seattle in exchange for C Miguel Olivo, minor league OF Jeremy Reed and minor league INF Michael Morse.
7/31/2004 Acquired RHP Jose Contreras and cash considerations from the New York Yankees for RHP Esteban Loaiza.
3/8/2006 Acquired INF Alex Cintron from the Arizona Diamondbacks in exchange for RHP Jeff Bajenaru.
3/20/2006 Acquired LHP Matt Thornton from the Seattle Mariners in exchange for OF Joe Borchard.
Good Pulls
6/29/2001 Alan Embree, LHP, was acquired from San Francisco in exchange for Derek Hasselhoff, RHP
1/15/2003 Acquired pitcher Orlando Hernandez and cash considerations from the New York Yankees in exchange for pitcher Antonio Osuna and minor-league pitcher Delvis Lantigua.
7/1/2003 Acquired outfielder Carl Everett from Texas in exchange for frank francisco, josh rupe, and anthony webster
7/29/2003 Obtained LHP Scott Schoeneweis and minor league RHP Doug Nickle from the Angels for RHPs Gary Glover and Scott Dunn and LHP Tim Bittner.
12/2/2003 Acquired infielder Juan Uribe from the Colorado Rockies in exchange for infielder Aaron Miles.
11/25/2005 Acquired 1B Jim Thome and cash considerations from the Phillies for CF Aaron Rowand, LHP Dan Haigwood and LHP Gio Gonzalez
12/13/2005 Acquired INF Rob Mackowiak from the Pittsburgh Pirates in exchange for LHP Damaso Marte..
6/15/2006 Acquired RHP David Riske from the Boston Red Sox in exchange for LHP Javier Lopez;
7/24/2006 Acquired RHP Mike MacDougal from the Kansas City Royals in exchange for nonroster LHP Tyler Lumsden and nonroster RHP Daniel Cortes
Winner by a nose
1/14/2001 Acquired pitchers David Wells and Matt DeWitt from the Toronto Blue Jays for pitchers Mike Sirotka, Kevin Beirne and Mike Williams and outfielder Brian Simmons
7/13/2002 Acquired 3B D''Angelo Jimenez from San Diego for catcher Humberto Quintero and outfielder Alex Fernandez
7/29/2002 Traded catcher Sandy Alomar to Colorado for RHP Enemencio Pacheco.
2/13/2005 Acquired minor league OF Jerry Owens from Washington in exchange for OF Alex Escobar.
More or Less Even
7/26/2001 James Baldwin, RHP, was traded to Los Angeles for minor leaguers Onan Masaoka, Gary Majewski and Jeff Barry.
7/31/2002 Traded RHP Bobby Howry to Boston in exchange for RHP Franklin Francisco and LHP Byeong An.
12/21/2001 Acquired OF Scott Bikowski and IF Josh Shaffer from the Anaheim Angels for P Dan Mozingo and P Jim Sweeney in a deal of minor league players.
3/27/2004 Acquired OF Timo Perez from the New York Mets in exchange for RHP Matt Ginter.
6/17/2004 Traded RHP Billy Koch and cash considerations to the Florida Marlins for minor league SS Wilson Valdez.
7/18/2004 Acquired OF Carl Everett and cash considerations from Montreal in exchange for minor league RHP Jon Rauch and RHP Gary Majewski.
7/31/2005 Acquired INF Geoff Blum from the San Diego Padres in exchange for LHP Ryan Meaux;
Minimally bad
7/1/2003 Acquired second baseman Roberto Alomar and cash considerations from the New York Mets in exchange for minor league pitchers Edwin Almonte and Royce Ring and infielder Andrew Salvo.
7/23/2006 Acquired C Sandy Alomar Jr. from the Dodgers in exchange for RHP B.J. LaMura
Poor Trade
7/25/2002 Traded 2B Ray Durham to Oakland for RHP Jon Adkins
7/28/2002 Traded OF Kenny Lofton to San Francisco for RHP Felix Diaz and LHP Ryan Meaux.
8/5/2004 Acquired 2B Roberto Alomar from the Diamondbacks for cash and a player to be named.
(Non-Magic) Beans for a Cow
12/13/2001 Acquired RHP Todd Ritchie and C Lee Evans from the Pittsburgh Pirates for RHP Sean Lowe, RHP Kip Wells and RHP Josh Fogg.
12/3/2002 Acquired closer Billy Koch, Neal Cotts and outfielder Daylan Holt from Oakland in exchange for pitcher Keith Foulke, catcher Mark Johnson, minor league pitcher Joe Valentine and cash considerations.
Can't judge
12/13/2004 Acquired OF Scott Podsednik, RHP Luis Vizcaino and a player to be named from Milwaukee in exchange for OF Carlos Lee.
-We got the short end when it comes to raw talent, but Pods helped catalyze the '05 World Series run; I highly doubt we would have won a title without him, so I can't really judge this one. Plus as James mentioned, it freed up a lot of cash for the likes of JD.
12/20/2005 Acquired RHP Javier Vazquez and cash considerations from the Arizona Diamondbacks in exchange for RHP Orlando Hernandez, RHP Luis Vizcaino and OF Chris Young.
-Too soon to tell. If you believe Coop fixed Javy down the stretch (keep in mind for starters, it usually takes him longer) then this trade isn't so terrible. If you believe Javy is a bust then this is a poor trade.
I'd venture to say that Kenny has been more consistent with his trades as of late. His two albatrosses were in '01 and '02 and the results of all his good trades can be seen with the culmination of the '05 title. That probably bodes well for his recent slew of trades, unless you're the pessimistic sort and figure he's long overdue for a terrible trade.
Unfortunately (for the sake of analysis) Kenny hasn't made a trade for a prospect, where he also dealt a prospect, so we have no prior experience to jump off of. In general he has been good when he's dealt prospects. The Vazquez trade notwithstanding, Gio Gonzalez seems to be the best prospect to be shipped off, and the Sox got him back. Frank Francisco had a good shot at being something, but the chair throwing coupled with Tommy John Surgery stopped his career in its tracks.
Kenny and his staff seem to know his players pretty well. Jeremy Reed was acknowledged as the Sox best prospect and he was the minor leaguer of the year in '03, yet KW flipped him and a few others for Freddy Garcia. There were definitely split feelings over the trade, but the Sox made out like filthy bandits in the end.
Another big problem that plagued Kenny early on was trading with teams from the Bay Area, but that isn't a concern with these moves. (Ahhhh, the sarcasm)
This somewhat became and exercise in futility, looking at all these trades. They weren't as relevant as I hoped they would be, but it's interesting enough to look at. Although all this should definitely be taken with a huge grain of salt, I will say that recent history looks encouraging.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I just want to bring up this question, see what y'all think...
Kenny has done a good job restocking the minors with arms, but what do you think is going to happen with regards to the minors and positional players? We don't have any studs in the minors outside of Sweeney and Fields, and some would even argue that they aren't studs. The Sox have no legitimate infield help in the upper leagues. Do you think Kenny will start pawning off some older players for position prospects or will he look to pick some up in the draft? Any creative trades you can think of that would net the Sox some talent without sabotaging the '07 team?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Coming soon in the Kenny series...
-I'll outline his free-agent signings in a similar fashion. For not other reason than because I think it will be interesting to look at as a whole.
-A final comparison of Kenny to Billy Beane. I'll compare some of the Sox trades (recent trades and potential trades) to similar ones made by Beane.
Heists
1/15/2003 Acquired pitcher Bartolo Colon and infielder Jorge Nunoz from Montreal in exchange for pitchers Rocky Biddle and Orlando Hernandez, outfielder Jeff Liefer and cash considerations
6/27/2004 Acquired RHP Freddy Garcia, C Ben Davis and cash considerations from Seattle in exchange for C Miguel Olivo, minor league OF Jeremy Reed and minor league INF Michael Morse.
7/31/2004 Acquired RHP Jose Contreras and cash considerations from the New York Yankees for RHP Esteban Loaiza.
3/8/2006 Acquired INF Alex Cintron from the Arizona Diamondbacks in exchange for RHP Jeff Bajenaru.
3/20/2006 Acquired LHP Matt Thornton from the Seattle Mariners in exchange for OF Joe Borchard.
Good Pulls
6/29/2001 Alan Embree, LHP, was acquired from San Francisco in exchange for Derek Hasselhoff, RHP
1/15/2003 Acquired pitcher Orlando Hernandez and cash considerations from the New York Yankees in exchange for pitcher Antonio Osuna and minor-league pitcher Delvis Lantigua.
7/1/2003 Acquired outfielder Carl Everett from Texas in exchange for frank francisco, josh rupe, and anthony webster
7/29/2003 Obtained LHP Scott Schoeneweis and minor league RHP Doug Nickle from the Angels for RHPs Gary Glover and Scott Dunn and LHP Tim Bittner.
12/2/2003 Acquired infielder Juan Uribe from the Colorado Rockies in exchange for infielder Aaron Miles.
11/25/2005 Acquired 1B Jim Thome and cash considerations from the Phillies for CF Aaron Rowand, LHP Dan Haigwood and LHP Gio Gonzalez
12/13/2005 Acquired INF Rob Mackowiak from the Pittsburgh Pirates in exchange for LHP Damaso Marte..
6/15/2006 Acquired RHP David Riske from the Boston Red Sox in exchange for LHP Javier Lopez;
7/24/2006 Acquired RHP Mike MacDougal from the Kansas City Royals in exchange for nonroster LHP Tyler Lumsden and nonroster RHP Daniel Cortes
Winner by a nose
1/14/2001 Acquired pitchers David Wells and Matt DeWitt from the Toronto Blue Jays for pitchers Mike Sirotka, Kevin Beirne and Mike Williams and outfielder Brian Simmons
7/13/2002 Acquired 3B D''Angelo Jimenez from San Diego for catcher Humberto Quintero and outfielder Alex Fernandez
7/29/2002 Traded catcher Sandy Alomar to Colorado for RHP Enemencio Pacheco.
2/13/2005 Acquired minor league OF Jerry Owens from Washington in exchange for OF Alex Escobar.
More or Less Even
7/26/2001 James Baldwin, RHP, was traded to Los Angeles for minor leaguers Onan Masaoka, Gary Majewski and Jeff Barry.
7/31/2002 Traded RHP Bobby Howry to Boston in exchange for RHP Franklin Francisco and LHP Byeong An.
12/21/2001 Acquired OF Scott Bikowski and IF Josh Shaffer from the Anaheim Angels for P Dan Mozingo and P Jim Sweeney in a deal of minor league players.
3/27/2004 Acquired OF Timo Perez from the New York Mets in exchange for RHP Matt Ginter.
6/17/2004 Traded RHP Billy Koch and cash considerations to the Florida Marlins for minor league SS Wilson Valdez.
7/18/2004 Acquired OF Carl Everett and cash considerations from Montreal in exchange for minor league RHP Jon Rauch and RHP Gary Majewski.
7/31/2005 Acquired INF Geoff Blum from the San Diego Padres in exchange for LHP Ryan Meaux;
Minimally bad
7/1/2003 Acquired second baseman Roberto Alomar and cash considerations from the New York Mets in exchange for minor league pitchers Edwin Almonte and Royce Ring and infielder Andrew Salvo.
7/23/2006 Acquired C Sandy Alomar Jr. from the Dodgers in exchange for RHP B.J. LaMura
Poor Trade
7/25/2002 Traded 2B Ray Durham to Oakland for RHP Jon Adkins
7/28/2002 Traded OF Kenny Lofton to San Francisco for RHP Felix Diaz and LHP Ryan Meaux.
8/5/2004 Acquired 2B Roberto Alomar from the Diamondbacks for cash and a player to be named.
(Non-Magic) Beans for a Cow
12/13/2001 Acquired RHP Todd Ritchie and C Lee Evans from the Pittsburgh Pirates for RHP Sean Lowe, RHP Kip Wells and RHP Josh Fogg.
12/3/2002 Acquired closer Billy Koch, Neal Cotts and outfielder Daylan Holt from Oakland in exchange for pitcher Keith Foulke, catcher Mark Johnson, minor league pitcher Joe Valentine and cash considerations.
Can't judge
12/13/2004 Acquired OF Scott Podsednik, RHP Luis Vizcaino and a player to be named from Milwaukee in exchange for OF Carlos Lee.
-We got the short end when it comes to raw talent, but Pods helped catalyze the '05 World Series run; I highly doubt we would have won a title without him, so I can't really judge this one. Plus as James mentioned, it freed up a lot of cash for the likes of JD.
12/20/2005 Acquired RHP Javier Vazquez and cash considerations from the Arizona Diamondbacks in exchange for RHP Orlando Hernandez, RHP Luis Vizcaino and OF Chris Young.
-Too soon to tell. If you believe Coop fixed Javy down the stretch (keep in mind for starters, it usually takes him longer) then this trade isn't so terrible. If you believe Javy is a bust then this is a poor trade.
I'd venture to say that Kenny has been more consistent with his trades as of late. His two albatrosses were in '01 and '02 and the results of all his good trades can be seen with the culmination of the '05 title. That probably bodes well for his recent slew of trades, unless you're the pessimistic sort and figure he's long overdue for a terrible trade.
Unfortunately (for the sake of analysis) Kenny hasn't made a trade for a prospect, where he also dealt a prospect, so we have no prior experience to jump off of. In general he has been good when he's dealt prospects. The Vazquez trade notwithstanding, Gio Gonzalez seems to be the best prospect to be shipped off, and the Sox got him back. Frank Francisco had a good shot at being something, but the chair throwing coupled with Tommy John Surgery stopped his career in its tracks.
Kenny and his staff seem to know his players pretty well. Jeremy Reed was acknowledged as the Sox best prospect and he was the minor leaguer of the year in '03, yet KW flipped him and a few others for Freddy Garcia. There were definitely split feelings over the trade, but the Sox made out like filthy bandits in the end.
Another big problem that plagued Kenny early on was trading with teams from the Bay Area, but that isn't a concern with these moves. (Ahhhh, the sarcasm)
This somewhat became and exercise in futility, looking at all these trades. They weren't as relevant as I hoped they would be, but it's interesting enough to look at. Although all this should definitely be taken with a huge grain of salt, I will say that recent history looks encouraging.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I just want to bring up this question, see what y'all think...
Kenny has done a good job restocking the minors with arms, but what do you think is going to happen with regards to the minors and positional players? We don't have any studs in the minors outside of Sweeney and Fields, and some would even argue that they aren't studs. The Sox have no legitimate infield help in the upper leagues. Do you think Kenny will start pawning off some older players for position prospects or will he look to pick some up in the draft? Any creative trades you can think of that would net the Sox some talent without sabotaging the '07 team?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Coming soon in the Kenny series...
-I'll outline his free-agent signings in a similar fashion. For not other reason than because I think it will be interesting to look at as a whole.
-A final comparison of Kenny to Billy Beane. I'll compare some of the Sox trades (recent trades and potential trades) to similar ones made by Beane.
posted by Jeeves at 9:02 PM
1 Comments:
I like the recent trades, although I now wonder about the future of the league. With 'bad' pitching and mediocre hitting cosing so much, I wonder if there is going to be a shift all across the league to valuing prospects much more highly. Obviously the White Sox and even the Yankees are taking this approach. A league average pitcher, with experience, used to cost 3-6 million and now they cost 11+ million. A young, prospect pitcher still costs about .5 million. In terms of value, does this mean that prospects are 2-3x as valuable as they were a few years ago. Average price is increasing, while the price of prospects has remained the same. The era of buying a team seems to be disappearing. With the Yankees and White Sox jumping on the prospect bandwagon, I wonder how long it will be before the rest of the league starts moving this direction also.
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